Manstein's "MIRACLE" at the Third Battle of Kharkov [Heavy Sarcasm within] TIK Q&A 19

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  • TIK
    TIK   6 months back

    It was my birthday last week so I fancied a change of pace with this video. Plus, I still get comments every day saying that Manstein didn’t lie ( https://youtu.be/uzAzpIdDNcI ) and that I absolutely have to listen to what the German generals said because they were there and know what happened, whereas I wasn’t there and didn’t know what happened. Ok then… we’ll go along with what Manstein said 100% and see where we end up.


    Also I’ll be honest, Wesley asked this question several months ago, and I only realised last week that I had completely missed his question out (I’m really sorry Wesley). So this was a very quick last-minute video, which is why I didn’t go into the super-detail (divisional level) which I think Wesley wanted. That said, I’m currently working on Battlestorm Stalingrad behind the scenes, and I absolutely want to do the Third Battle of Kharkov as a Battlestorm series after that, because then that will lead nicely to the Battle of Kursk. So if you’re wanting me to go into great detail on it, start demanding that I hurry up with Stalingrad.

    And just to be clear, the sarcasm in the video is not directed towards Wesley, but is directed towards the idea that the Third Battle of Kharkov was a “miracle”. I’m not convinced that you can trust what the German generals (or any generals) by what they claim at all. The number of German troops was more than often stated, the number of Soviet troops was less than implied, and the Red Army was stretched thin and exhausted after months of advancing. The Soviet divisions were depleted, running out of ammunition and fuel, and weren’t concentrated. The Germans struck at the very moment the Red Army offensive was on the verge of coming to a halt anyway, and they had air superiority. Manstein had gathered substantial forces (either fresh or experienced) for his attack, and hit the Soviets in the flanks. They took on the Red Army in pieces rather than all in one go, and they only took a small amount of territory. If you call taking back a couple of miles after losing 100 miles a “miracle” then I guess this really was a great victory for the Wehrmacht.

    *Sources*

    Glantz, D. "After Stalingrad: The Red Army's Winter Offensive 1942-43." Helion & Company, Kindle 2011.
    Glantz, D. “Colossus Reborn: The Red Army at War, 1941-1943.” University Press of Kansas, 2005.
    Glanz, D. "From the Don to the Dnepr: Soviet Offensive Operations December 1942-August 1943." Routledge, Kindle 2013.
    Glantz, D. House, J. “The Stalingrad Trilogy, Volume 1. To the Gates of Stalingrad. Soviet-German Combat Operations, April-August 1942.” University Press of Kansas, 2009.
    Glantz, D. House, J. “The Stalingrad Trilogy, Volume 2. Armageddon in Stalingrad: September-November 1942.” University Press of Kansas, 2009.
    Glantz, D. House, J. “The Stalingrad Trilogy, Volume 3. Endgame at Stalingrad Book One: November 1942..” University Press of Kansas, 2014.
    Glantz, D. House, J. “The Stalingrad Trilogy, Volume 3. Endgame at Stalingrad Book Two: December 1942-February 1943.” University Press of Kansas, 2014.
    Glantz, D. “When Titan’s Clashed.” University Press of Kansas, 2015.
    Manstein, E. “Lost Victories.” Zenith Press, 2004.
    Melvin, M. “Manstein: Hitler’s Greatest General.” Orion, Kindle 2010.
    Zeimke, E. “From Stalingrad to Berlin: The Illustrated Edition.” Pen & Sword, Kindle 2014.

    A full list of all my WW2 and related books can be found here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/114GiK85MPs0v4GKm0izPj3DL2CrlJUdAantx5GQUKn8/edit?usp=sharing

    Thanks for watching! Bye for now!

    • Fire Heart
      Fire Heart  1 months back

      TIK , *It’s spelled #KHARKIV , not KharkOv .

      Same goes for other Ukrainian cities...
      ... ODESA , not OdeSSa
      ... KYIV , not Kiev
      and etc.

    • Cool Bob
      Cool Bob  2 months back

      Happy birthday and 1 Division is bigger than a Soviet Division so it could be more like 1 to 6-7ish depending on how depleted either unit is, still bad but not as bad

    • Howard Crowe
      Howard Crowe  2 months back

      TIK why didn't Germany build more trucks?

    • Terry Lasparkin
      Terry Lasparkin  2 months back

      Not that you ever reply to me but do you think an attack on Moscow was better than striking east/south for oil. Anyone else can answer this for me as well thankyou..

    • Timothy Goldstein
      Timothy Goldstein  3 months back

      TIK, you are a complete dumbass moron, and you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

  • Elias Jarjoura
    Elias Jarjoura  7 hours back

    should have gone with 560 000 / 70 000 = 8 !

    • ravi kumar
      ravi kumar  8 hours back

      For me Manstein was more a NATO general than a Nazi general. During Cold war ,He was glorified along with many other Nazi generals like Guderian,Rommel, Manteufell etc. Creatures like "Spiedel " seved in NATO.Had these genius germans,on behalf of little Adolf ,succeeded in defeating the Neanderthal ,Mongol Russians what would have been the fate of London and Wallstreet Yids

      • saxcoburg
        saxcoburg  21 hours back

        As far as I am aware much of his success was due to the fact he had he had an exceptional general staff team. Maybe he was a good "manager". Anyway You seem to have completely missed the point here?

        • AB CD
          AB CD  1 weeks back

          Manstein had way more balls than you british bastard.

          • Neelkanth Sapre
            Neelkanth Sapre  1 weeks back

            Did not like this video. Did not get any new information due to sarcastic nature of it.

            • George Doolittle
              George Doolittle  2 weeks back

              "We will not fight War the clever German way." J. Stalin..

              • TV Gerbil
                TV Gerbil  2 weeks back

                The development of the Assault Gun StuG, the most effective armored fighting vehicle of the Wehrmacht in WW2, was the brainchild of a certain colonel Erich von Manstein. The strategic plan that completely outfoxed the Western Allies in 1940, which led to the eventual fall of France, was formulated by a certain lieutenant general Erich von Manstein. The man was no one-trick pony.

                • John Dana
                  John Dana  2 weeks back

                  Do you like Hitler dude? I mean you talk about him in admirable terms. He was a evil fool.

                  • Karl Johns
                    Karl Johns  1 days back

                    He spent the entire video shitting on the German high command. Why would he admire Hitler

                • Nick Cavalletti
                  Nick Cavalletti  2 weeks back

                  Well Manstein was a Field Marshal and you're a tuber so...

                  • Sébastien Garnier
                    Sébastien Garnier  2 weeks back

                    it is fun for 5 minutes

                    • 44. Infanterie-division

                      Manstein took a shovel and fended off an army with it.

                      Then he literally made a portal and had it spit Greandes at the Soviets.

                      The Tanks rolled forward and he charged them, he picked them up like the Hulk and threw them around like bath toys.

                      Finally, the Artillery started to Shell. He swallowed Shells and spit them at Soviets.

                      True Story.

                      • Luka Blaikie
                        Luka Blaikie  2 weeks back

                        You made a slight mistake at around 13:50 when you said Panzers run off the blood of Aryans. It is clearly stated in the Gospel According To Guderian that Panzers are fueled by the blood of Frenchmen and Soviets. This demonstrates the brilliance of German engineering as their Panzers are able to completely refuel by absorbing the blood of their defeated enemies, something that not even modern tanks can achieve, proving once and for all that the Wehrmacht in WWII was the greatest fighting force ever.

                        • josh B
                          josh B  2 weeks back

                          The heavy handed sarcasm wears thin very quickly. Sarcasm is the lowest form of humour and it shows.

                          • Gawd's Universe
                            Gawd's Universe  2 weeks back

                            Tik is a pissant throwing rocks at one of the great generals of WW2. This video has the worst like to dislike ratio I've ever seen on YouTube, it is that bad, and no amount of insane ranting can change the facts, Manstein was a military genius and responsible for much of the German success during WW2.

                            • Liam Bobyak
                              Liam Bobyak  2 weeks back

                              It’s been a while since I’ve read mansteins book but idk if you are interpreting his strategy for defense correctly. My interpretation of his plan was that it was similar to Joseph Johnston’s for the defense of Georgia in the ACW. He wanted to essentially trade space for time and since they had all of this Soviet territory (the rail infrastructure of which was still in shambles from 1941 and what there was was being damaged by partisans) they had to trade but limited manpower and material. And by withdrawing they would drastically shorten the front and thereby be able to make better use of their strained resources. He wanted to couple this trading space for time strategy, in turn, with creating fortified positions behind the line that they could slowly withdraw to but Hitler was opposed to this since he claimed that if soldiers knew they had a better defensive position behind them it would make them more susceptible to retreating and not “standing fast” and he also was giving priority for defensive works construction to the Atlantic wall. Manstein had wanted to make the Dniepr his main defense line but there simply hadn’t been either the time or the effort and resources to turn the defenses into anything truly substantial and his forces had been compelled by hitler to fight stubbornly and suffer heavy losses during the previous weeks to months. Now if you have a better idea of what manstein was actually saying since as I said it’s been a while since I read the book feel free to correct me but your rather sarcastic interpretation of his conception of how to defend in the East doesnt fit with what I remember reading

                              • Kenneth Kingsbury
                                Kenneth Kingsbury  2 weeks back

                                The Germans could have never won the war - it was a lost cause, started by the madness of Adolf Hitler. But if the war had been only about recapturing the former German territories and then regime-change in Russia - then they could have won the battle. The Germans could have easily used the surrendering Russians to fight against the communist regime of Stalin. The communist forces in the Roosevelt administration and the greater U.S. government would have never let their great hero [Stalin] go down to defeat. Proof! Truman backed Mao and the communist over the Nationalist Government in Peking. Thus securing communist hegemony for generations to come. Truman, Eisenhower, and Roosevelt handed over to Russia half of Europe. Eisenhower delayed as long as possible, the U.S. victory over the German forces and allowed the communist to conquer half of Germany.

                                • ISA MULAJ
                                  ISA MULAJ  3 weeks back

                                  This charlatan who is sarcastically maintaining that Manstein could have won the war if he had been allowed to retreat to Berlin, is ignoring two facts, two quotes respectively: “We need the oil in the south (Baku) to continue the war” – Hitler. “That’s irrelevant as long as the Red Army remains undefeated in the field” – Manstein. Therefore, Manstein was right, Hitler and this charlatan TIK were and still are wrong. Had Manstein not retreated, the Wehrmacht in southeastern would have faced annihilation like in Stalingrad. The panzers did not run on Arian blood as this TIK is joking, but to pursue for oil in the south or holding at any cost, would certainly cause a disaster for the Wehrmacht. Never forget that Manstein was the nephew of legendary Paul von Hindenburg. Why someone does not ask this TIK if Manstein was right when he protested the decision of Hitler to terminate operation Citadel as the Kursk salient was likely to be closed?
                                  You need oil to continue the war, but can you get it if you are facing crippling defeats in the field? Which one is more urgent to be dealt with?

                                  • M P
                                    M P  3 weeks back

                                    I had hoped to actually learn something from this-guess I'll have to go somewhere else. If only Montgomery had fought on the Eastern Front, the war would have ended earlier, say in 1950.

                                    • Santiago Hernández
                                      Santiago Hernández  3 weeks back

                                      24:59 "Let he who is without sin cast the first Stein" lmao

                                      • Military History
                                        Military History  3 weeks back

                                        I couldn't understand the sarcasm, now my brain is probably full with false information :/

                                        • finsfan90
                                          finsfan90  3 weeks back

                                          Great content. I was laughing throughout the entire video lol while also learning stuff as well.

                                          • A TB
                                            A TB  3 weeks back

                                            Did I detect a note of sarcasm in your presentation?

                                            • Luiz Vinícius Vieira Alexandre

                                              I smell HERETICS EXTERMINATUS NOW

                                              • Scor Pion
                                                Scor Pion  4 weeks back

                                                Damn he hates Manstein so much lol, just wonder why.

                                                • Fray2221
                                                  Fray2221  4 weeks back

                                                  Manstein's 300 will never be forgotten.

                                                  • Maryo Radu
                                                    Maryo Radu  4 weeks back

                                                    you have an weird way of interpreting those numbers :) if you think your videos are helping someone to learn about ww2 you're wrong. Or perhaps you don't even want to help anyone, just talk sht on youtoube

                                                    • Bullwinkle
                                                      Bullwinkle  4 weeks back

                                                      The same people who deny the Manstein miracle also claim the earth is a globe and that NASA landed on the moon.

                                                      • Robert Whitehouse
                                                        Robert Whitehouse  4 weeks back

                                                        If you want your intelligence insulted, watch this video. Not a single primary source quoted.

                                                        • Pericles Dervisis
                                                          Pericles Dervisis  4 weeks back

                                                          Actually the deductions in this video are wrong. TIK is a good researcher but he doesnt have a grasp of military tactics. Yes, thats exactly how you win, by withdrawing and counterattacking even if you dont gain the same ground. Because in the proccess you will have destroyed the enemy forces. Ground is not the objective. And they withdrew from the Caucasus so they dont get cut off.

                                                          • Der Preuße
                                                            Der Preuße  4 weeks back

                                                            The sarcasm actually hurts

                                                            • MyNameJeff
                                                              MyNameJeff  1 months back

                                                              I miss you my lord

                                                              • Kian Docherty
                                                                Kian Docherty  1 months back

                                                                I think it is kinda clear at around 4:30 the troop numbers were referring to the entire Red Army that served in 1943; this explains wikipedia talking about the entire German army, including the Norway troops and puts the context as an overall comparison of both nations armies. Though I do agree Manstein was full of shit.

                                                                • Place Name
                                                                  Place Name  1 months back

                                                                  I heard the soviet troops literally disintegrated in the face of our holy saviour’s power

                                                                  • H D
                                                                    H D  1 months back

                                                                    I don't think its a miracle as much as a great operational move. He does have battered remnants, some fresh units but had the balls to counter attack. I always laugh at armchair generals that strut like roosters because they know the enemy strength. Then you put them in the same situation but now they don't know the actual strength of their enemy and their balls drop to the ground. But looking at the maintenance records from ELLIS Germany has 2300 tanks on the eastern front but slightly more than 600 operational.  Thaaaaaats you kinda gotta question. That's only 25% of your armor operational. That's a high repair rate. But the Soviet maintenance records  supposedly have 7200 on the front. Based on roll calls I agree with TIK the  Germans may not have been out numbered so much in infantry like Manstein says but ill go out on a limb and say they got there azz kicked in the armor numbers.

                                                                    • Hrvoje Antonio Bušić
                                                                      Hrvoje Antonio Bušić  1 months back

                                                                      Have you heard of our lord and saviour Von Manstein?

                                                                      • MrAkurvaeletbe
                                                                        MrAkurvaeletbe  1 months back

                                                                        Ugh another video where you just make it your mission to disprove some random wheraboo...i was hoping to hear about the third battle of kharkov...

                                                                        • WorshipinIdols
                                                                          WorshipinIdols  1 months back

                                                                          Von Manstein was indeed magnificent. Scary to think how much EVEN MIRE MASSIVE. Soviet loses would have been Hitler simply checked out of the tactical and operational decision making and focused on ... maybe national moral boosting or industry.

                                                                          But Manstein’s strategy if moving back and forth was indeed brilliantS. Inflict brutal damage on Soviets during offense and then play loose defense while giving ground in exchange of making the Russians pay for every inch with gallons of blood .

                                                                          And repeat next years.

                                                                          • Rudolph Guarnacci
                                                                            Rudolph Guarnacci  1 months back

                                                                            In the first seconds I thought you were talking about obama

                                                                            • nour nabil
                                                                              nour nabil  1 months back

                                                                              NOW THIS IS MODERN WARFARE

                                                                              • Jesus Jimenez
                                                                                Jesus Jimenez  1 months back

                                                                                Thank you for shedding some light on this miracle.

                                                                                • Barnaby
                                                                                  Barnaby  1 months back

                                                                                  I’m with sin so I’ll keep my stein full and not cast it. Great video. 👍 The German army was professional and effective. My grandfather respected them. He met them in the Ardennes... a cold, brutal time. Salute

                                                                                  • AX78Conch
                                                                                    AX78Conch  1 months back

                                                                                    sorry TIK. I like your videos, but you're actually quite wrong about this. Your numbers are off (by a huge margin) and especially Mansteins 8 to 1 claim was not done counting all of his and the Soviet forces, but just his right flank. You admitted that this was hastily made, and you should get back to it with more time to make your research. This one's poor on your side.

                                                                                    • Erik Halvorseth
                                                                                      Erik Halvorseth  1 months back

                                                                                      Am I the only one thinkin 'do this clip again' but without all the sarcasm, with stats and numbers, serious, like a true military historian would? Because, albeit I find this clip interesting
                                                                                      the amount of sarcasm is so great that it actually confuses a simple soul like me.

                                                                                      • Elijah Logobizaar
                                                                                        Elijah Logobizaar  1 months back

                                                                                        Why don't you guy fuck yourself you stupid little Brit?

                                                                                        • Fire Heart
                                                                                          Fire Heart  1 months back

                                                                                          *It’s spelled #KHARKIV , not KharkOv .

                                                                                          Same goes for other Ukrainian cities...
                                                                                          ... ODESA , not OdeSSa
                                                                                          ... KYIV , not Kiev
                                                                                          and etc.

                                                                                        • Bojan Kotur
                                                                                          Bojan Kotur  1 months back

                                                                                          How dare you doubt the Great Manstein?!

                                                                                          • Peter Walsh
                                                                                            Peter Walsh  1 months back

                                                                                            He was a brilliant general no matter what.in the top 3 of the war dunno why the hate.